[Discuss] The New Message System must die...

[Andrew Asche]

> And what exactly about "All troops, move to London" betrays the process of
> doing that?  Its a VERY simple thing.  General orders his men to go
> somewhere... you can have the Marshal actually issue the order, but what in
> God's name does that accomplish?  Its just another spoke in the wheel,
> another place something can go wrong, and it doesn't actually give the
> Marshal any decision making ability... it just makes them "go through the
> motions" of having authority.  Even under the new system, the General is the
> one calling the shots.

And you can do that with a letter or request sent to the realm saying
"We are gathering near London to attack it.  Your marshal will provide
further details.  Knowing that their Marshals are your subordinates,
most people will be inclined to submit to that request, excepting that
it is expressly forbidden by their liege or marshal.

> What exactly is the Marshal "implimenting".  He is more RELAYING than
> anything else.  Even in the most pure and perfect execution of the new
> system, the way everyone is romanticizing it... the General is STILL coming
> up with what the military is doing, the Marshal is merely the "point person"
> now that issues orders to the armies - which is yet again little more than a
> technicality.  A technicality that makes it infinately harder for a general
> to conrol or plan anything.
I think you are coming around to the idea, but still missing the finer
points.  The general is created the military strategy, and relaying it
to the marshals.  Marshals are not entirely under the general's
control, however, and that is where the finer points come in....If
everyone has to follow the general's orders above anything, the
opinion of the regional lords doesn't matter.  However, the marshals
are put in place by the regional lords, as subordinates to the
general, and thus have multiple places to get input from.


> And what exactly, do you think "itty bitty things" are that the generals are
> ordering around now?  Seriously - what the heck besides movements and
> settings is of such micromanaging minutia that it is causing game havoc?  I
> don't get it.
Frequent movement orders and line settings *are* minutia in the
"bigger picture" the general is responsible for.

> If I had 8 armies and was trying to do something, then they either will be
> joining together in one effort, in which case it would be infinately easier
> (and more realistic) for me as a general to issue an order to EVERYONE that
> says "Alright - all 8 armies of the realm - do this!" than it would be to
> disseminate that to EIGHT Marshals (my god - how awful of an idea is that)
> and hope that 2/3 of them actually issue orders to their armies.
And you're going to lose the war when your blob army gets circled run
around it by raiding parties tearing up your land.

> If there were doing separate missions, then regardless of who issues them
> the orders or not, the planning and responsibility belongs to the general.
> For all your rosy talk about Marshals controlling and commanding their
> armies - the priorities, targets and philosophy that will be used is ALL in
> the hands of the General (mostly because it HAS to be - authority for
> "calling the shots" has to lie with somebody)
The question is, one somebody, or are the shots open to consideration
by marshals and lords?

>... so even if they are doing 8
> things - these Marshals aren't doing them independantly, so the General is
> still individually coming up with priorities, targets and so on for each of
> the armies.
>
> In other words - NOTHING is different, except for a muddied up message
> system and the illusion of authority in the hands of the Marshal.
>
> But my lord - if this game is REALLY moving in this direction, where we are
> moving toward a system where we'll need/want to have 8 marshals and generals
> who can't order anything then the game really is going to suffer.  A lot.
Not really.  It's being done.  Successfully.  I don't see BattleMaster
crashing down around our ears like you do, though.