[Discuss] Religion that Matters

[Rob Croson]

On 19 Dec 2007 at 19:18, Jeremy Steingraber wrote:

> In order for priests to achieve the sort of power that Tom talks about
> they need to have more tools available to influence the peasants. 
> Currently priests can only affect morale (and loyalty a tiny amount). 
> What they need to do is to be able to influence (in small, slowly
> accumulating increments) their opinions about other realms, and their
> want or dislike of war. 

This can happen already, in a roundabout way. If the majority of 
peasants in a region don't like the lord's religion, then there will 
be increased independence. (i.e. lower morale and loyalty, bigger 
production drops, etc.)

> **From my experience; religions tend to be greatly realm-centric: One
> or two religions in a realm: restrictions or outright bans on creating
> new religions, and of course the forbidding of preaching in allied
> lands.  This means that state effectively controls the growth of the
> religion, without outright rebellion by the priests this effectively
> shuts down the "influence" of religion. 

This really depends on the island. Atamara, from what I have seen, is 
extremely realm-centric with religions. The realms jealously guard 
their peasants' religious beliefs and forbid foreign preaching.

Beluaterra tends to be much more open. There are several religions 
that are widespread.

EC, actually, tends to be somewhere in-between. There are a couple 
realms that have intermingled faiths. There are at least three, 
possibly four, faiths that have spread among a decent number of 
realms. The problem is that they lack priests to really grow.

> For many religions to be effective they need to be a long term
> strategy, gradually growing, increasing influence in the minds of the
> people, which then leads to political clout.  A small budding religion
> stands no chance in outright rebellion against the realms agenda, just
> as one region breaking away from a large realm stands no chance
> without outside support. 

I agree with these statements. This is the way it is, and I also 
think it's the way it should be. Just like seceding a small city with 
no other regions from a large realm should be extremely difficult, so 
should tarting a new faith in a realm that is very strongly invested 
in a single faith.

> Solution: Allow religious beliefs to leach into surrounding regions. 
> Without constant attention of priests, regions should gradually
> acquire the beliefs of the regions around them.

Already happens. The maount that it spreads depends on the number of 
followers in each region, and the frequency of preachings. It can 
actually be quite significant, and you can end up converting a large 
portion of a surrounding region without ever going into it. It takes 
time, though.

> Priests should also
> have the ability to send out missionaries to other regions and realms.
>  Perhaps training a portions of one regions believers into a increased
> belief in a surrounding region.  (There could be a reduced effect for
> regions that are farther away from the origin of the missionaries.) 
> This would lead to a non-violent battle of rival religions for control
> of the populous. 

I kinda like that idea. Build up enough followers and then send them 
to the region next-door. It would lower the population in your own 
region, decreasing the number of your own followers, and raise the 
population in the region next door. I would restrict the distance you 
could send them, most likely to adjoining regions.

> To encourage religions to spread, perhaps they earn gold, in the form
> of peasant donations, based upon the number of peasant beleivers they
> have.  They may still require noble donations to fully function, but
> the incentive of increased funds and thus increased influence would
> create more conflict between religions and eventually more religiously
> influenced wars between realms or even within realms. 

This already happens. The more followers you have in a region, the 
more gold the commoners donate. The amount is intentionally limited 
to a bit more than is required to fund the temples and shrines. 
Religions should be required to have noble financial support to 
thrive and grow. If religions could be financial powerhouses on their 
own, then realms would create state religions for their own 
protection. This would seriously decrease the ability of a religion 
to spread. No realm would want another realm to be making gold in 
their regions.

> **Allowing nobles to loot temples of rival religions without an honor
> or prestige loss, (perhaps even a honor gain for being true to your
> faith) would also create more religions and conflicts.  Effectively
> putting the Battle back into BattleMaster! 

You already can. You don't ever lose honor or prestige for looting 
(unless it's illegal in your realm, then you can lose honor).