[Discuss] "last seen" troopleader list feature removed?

[Eric]

LilWolf wrote:

> Loren Schmidt wrote:
>
>> The logic is this.  You're punishing people for 'refusing' to follow 
>> orders, not disobeying them.  
>
>
> Why shouldn't people be punished for 'refusing' to follow orders? If 
> your lord or king ordered you to do something, you bloody well didn't 
> say "No, I'd rather do this" and expect to get away without any 
> punishment.
>
Why on earth should you follow a leader just because they are a leader?  
That is teh way things were.  This is not an Army Game.  This is a Game 
of nobles.

>> He made it quite explicit.  For instance, lets say I'm in the capital 
>> chilling, training my troops.  I'm ordered to take my men and go 
>> fight some battle.  I'd much prefer to train my men, or my personal 
>> favorite is when I'm ordered to recruit and I'll just sit there and 
>> say I don't have golds.  
>
>
> So what you're saying is everyone should be free to do what the hell 
> they want and completely disregard any orders given?

That is not what he said at all.  He said if "If I do not believe in you 
and am good enough to pull it off and bullshit you why shouldn't I?"  
Loren can sell people on things (well not Serko anymore but he can't be 
banned now lol) and that is part of playing.  This "You're in the army 
now boy and your ass is mine!" is not really what the game has ever been 
about.

>
>
>>  I read maybe half, and normally only personally addressed letters.  
>> I occasionally even skip orders b/c I know I'd be left out in the 
>> middle of no-where if I'm not logging in for a few turns afterwards.  
>> In essence, people are fining too much.
>>   
>
>
> I really have never, ever witnessed this excessive fining/banning some 
> of you are on about. Reading the comments on this list, neither have 
> many others.
>
We used to see I believe 7 to 8 bans a day throughout the game.  Most 
coming in around turn change.  Not generally hardcase ppl more hardcase 
realms.  Most of the reasons were variants of not following orders.  
Most obvious excuses to get rid of the guy that wasn't as active as the 
realm liked their activity... and not even decent enough to be asked to 
leave.

>> Everyone forgets that these are nobles, not soldiers.  They are in 
>> command of their units, not the general.  Think Braveheart when the 
>> nobles ride from the field, rather than fight with Wallace.
>>   
>
>
> That's a poor example. Wallace was a peasant/petty lord, not a 
> general/king or what ever.
>
It was a popular movie example and a good one to show how things 
worked.  How about Achilles refusing to fight for the King of Kings?  
Yes I know the Illiad is likely more a compilation of accounts of the 
Trojan War than a singular event, but that was the first democracy, 
council of Kings, and Achilles routinely fought only when the spirit 
moved him. 

Even as late as the Crimean War there was doubt if all the units would 
show up if not sold on the idea.  This is why the heavily patriotic 
Charge of the Light Brigand was such a big deal.  It showed a believe in 
the war and the commander that was supposed to be a beacon for all of 
England that they were indeed on the side of right and that even these 
brave six hundred so believed that they would first march in certain 
death and then once getting a glimmer of the upper hand march back out.

Today the story of the Charge of the Light Brigand would not be a story 
about belief in a cause it would be about screwed up intelligence, bad 
startegy, and effective leadership.  We would cry for the dead young men 
saying their lives were utter wasted instead of celebrate them as brave, 
stalward protectors of the crown.  

Unfortunately BM tends to the later when it should be much more like the 
former.