[Discuss] duchy system rework

[Jesse Ball]

From: "Andrew Morris"  <mailto:andfalcon at cox.net> andfalcon at cox.net

I must mention that I changed a rule in the second message from the first
without realizing it. 

All regions can war within their own realm. 

>I disagree with these points. Duchy-to-realm and region-to-duchy shares
should still be set by the duke or lord controlling the duchy or region.
This allows the lord and dukes to show their loyalty if they wish to and
also prevents anyone from abusing their power to steal entire region or
duchy taxes.

RESPONCE: Setting taxes in a top-down system would be demands. A vassel
would not necessarily pay that tax.

 From: "Robert Croson, Jr" <robert at arcm.com>

>Interesting idea. Everybody sets the tax level on those below them in the
hierarchy. This should be combined with completely removing the regional-to-
realm taxes. Make all tax money flow up through the hierarchy. The king
taxes the dukes and imperial lords. The dukes tax the regional lords and the
commoners of their cities. The regional lords tax their own commoners. There
should be no taxes flowing directly from a ducal region to the realm.

RESPONCE: Exactly, loyalties are to ones liege, not your liege's liege. 

>> 2) Hierarchy needs to be based on personal relationships, not from land.
A knight can be the vassle of any noble, for any reason, for any  pay., with
or without an estate. 

>> 3) (optional)Unaligned nobles should be able to set up estates anywhere.

>No, force all the nobles into the hierarchy. Just as it is not desirable or
profitable to be rogue without a realm, it should be undesirable and
unprofitble to be unaligned without a liege lord.

RESPONCE: There should be no reason why they should not be able to. The
control of this undesireable condition is through the lord. As the unaligned
noble is reaping income from his region tax free, he is beggin to be
pillaged without legal repercution. That fact combined with the intial
investment needed to set up an estate would be crippleing. All of this is
assumeing estates are the sorce of income, not arbitrary tax distributions. 

RESPONCE: The hierarchy and your title should be based on your vassels and
their titles. The only concrete lordly title being the lowest rung, baron. 

>> 8(optional)(dependant on 2, perhapse too drastic) abolish the static
realm system. Make it so each region is its own realm, with the lord  being
the ruler and the judge,banker, and general being made up of knights. 

>While this is, theoretically, an interesting idea, I can't see it working.
Yes, it  could work if all regions could support 20 knights, but that's not
the reality of the current BattleMaster. If a region has a lord and two
knights, then your  system is completely unworkable. Any kind of system has
to work from a 2 region/1 duchy/6 noble realm all the way up to 30 region/6
duchy/200 noble monsters. And, really, under the current system of
allegiances, we almost have exactly what you are talking about anyway. A
region lord can always realign to any other duchy, including those in other
realms. He can set his own region taxes and control his own food supply. He
can have his own army, if he wants. He can dispense good and bad marks
against his kngihts. Really, the only thing he can't do is set individual
diplomacy with other regions. Which I think is completely useless.

RESPONCE: The 4 government positions can be filled by knights and the ruler.
The current game limits you to 2 positions. If the ruler is the ruler and a
another position, he only needs 2 knights. A judge position on such a level
could also be too superlifious. 

RESPONCE:It is true that the current allegiances can do mostly of what is
being suggested, but other than food, there is little reason for haveing
vassels as a duke as duchy taxes are often a joke. This system allows
intra-realm fighting. If that is the case, Ducal protection for a set
region-to-duchy tax rate would give players an RP reason to be in duchies,
and further decentralize the modern nationalistic ideas that plague BM.
Currently, only the realm has an army. This is not because only the capitol
recruits, but that only the realm has diplomatic stances. Assuming regions
have thier own stances, I duke would have to assure himself of his vassels
loyalty to commit to battle, as they have to raise their regions troops and
have their armies pay homage, otherwise they are conquoring in their own
lords name, which gives him the rights to tributes and lordship over the
conquored lord, or he may appoint his own vassel to the region for an honour
penalty. If he vassalizes the lord, that lord keeps his own vassels. If he
appoints, the conquered lords become independant. 

>Which would work only if your liege lord has the ability to do something
about it. If the people at the bottom have all the power, then this system
won't work: "I don't have to pay my taxes, and there's nothing you can do
about it."

RESPONCE: The game should allow a liege to do something, drastic if need be.
If allegiances are itra-realm, you could simply pillage him, or TO him and
appoint someone else if he does not relieve himself. This also simplifies
rebellions tremendously.

 

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