[Discuss] The New Message System must die...

[Andrew Asche]

> Somebody needs to explain to me how a general issuing an order saying, "all
> right, all military units, gather in ________" is "micromanaging".
It's micromanaging because its not his job.  It's like your regional
manager at work setting your schedule.  It just doesn't happen.
Generals delegate.

>  I'm sorry, but the idea of having to pass an order like that "down the
> chain" to say three marshals (just as an example), and then hope that they
> can pass the orders down to their armies in a timely and prompt fashion is
> just stupid.
Sure, if you're so poor of a general that you're making everything up
as you go.  If you've got strategic ability, however, you can be at
least 3 days ahead of your marshals, and giving them the ability to
decide how to react to little things that come up.

>If I have one marshal in the west coast United States, one
> Marshal in Germany and one marshal in Quebec - how the hell am I supposed to
> expect that anything I "pass down the chain" will be implemented with any
> semblance of cohesion?
Well, if you've passed it down soon enough, there shoudln't be a problem.

>  I think half of you responding to my message must not be generals -
I stopped being a general in favor of becoming ruler, and politely
decline being general in another realm.  So close enough.

>oh and
> by the way, thanks for being complete cynical dicks in stead of just
> responding - but regardless... if a General is supposed to set military
> policy for others to follow, plan military campaigns, etc - how is forcing
> that general to jump through multiple hoops of bureaucratic nightmares just
> to issue a simple MOVEMENT order, helping the game?
I don't see as how "setting military policy", "palnning campaigns",
etc, will require a simple movement order to be sent at the time of
planning.

>
>  It kills any reasonable expectation that multiple realms can put together a
> strong coalition army, because of all the steps that could screw it up.
Sounds pretty accurate to me.

>  And lets be honest - if "realism" is the motivation here for the change - I
> have to say this is LESS realistic.  Medieval armies may have indeed been
> hierarchical, and General's were not individually ordering the tactical
> behavior of its men - but army cohesion when a campaign was happening was
> strong - because the General would set strategy with his lieutenants, and
> they would disseminate the information to the armies, and the whole army
> would move as one.  Those directions to the marshal's/captains were always
> obeyed, always carried out, and done quickly.
So...Realistic is a general ordering marshals ordering nobles, and
therefore the implementation of generals ordering marshals ordering
nobles is unrealistic?

>  We are attempting to duplicate that on a game that has players from like 8+
> time zones, real lives and differing activity levels - and the result is
> that military planning and execution is going to be really friggin' weak,
> and not even remotely close to "realistic".
Okay, planning is done before hand, execution will be the same as
before, but with smaller groups.  I don't see a huge difference here.

>  You don't want Generals micromanaging armies, individual knights, and
> whatever - fine... not only do I understand that concern, I AGREE with it -
> but removing the General's ability to issue ORDERS is not the way to fix it.
> It basically removes almost all reason to be a general in the first place.
Read earlier things about planning strategy.
And removing the ability to issue orders might not be the way to fix
it, but it was necessary so that the change woudln't simply be
ignored.

>  By the way - what medieval general COULDN'T micromanage an army if he
> wanted to anyway?
Anyone commanding anything sizable enough to be worth fighting, I suppose.

>And how many generals in the medieval world had no
> ability to issue orders?  I mean, talk about unrealistic, cumbersome and
> stupid.
I'll grant you that one, but read back to the point about enforcing the change.


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